[Suggestion] Restrict Rugby Passes to Improve Gameplay



  • People go to commonly known servers. People used to go to DEMO despite what a shitshow it was, because the name was known.
    (And why did people originally go to rugby? Because it seemed cool at first, and then it turned out it wasn't.)

    Skillz warned us of this years ago.



  • но я не вижу вас троих часто на сервере) мой интерес - обеспечить команде проход к флагам и благоприятное возвращение. поэтому я переживаю о других игроках, которые обладали иллюзией возможности. мне понравился комментарий miu. возможен ли компромисс для смягчения переходного периода?



  • "Put Rugby into the next trash can and burn the can?" Problem solved.



  • @julia
    Ну, лично я просто крайне редко играю на публичных серверах, меня раздражает большое количество игроков. Но когда играю, это в 99% случаев будет rigatoni. Конечно же, дело не в режиме. И да, я не считаю, что его не нужно как-либо видоизменять или вообще ликвидировать - его просто нужно совсем немного усложнить, чтобы некоторые умники больше не могли злоупотребить его возможностями.


    We can't remove the mode, people are already used to play it. I still like my idea about giving 5s timeout before allowing to pass the flag (also applies to people who received the flag after a pass). Also it's easy to implement.



  • Rugby was an idea to make the gameplay more interesting. What happened, was the opposite. Good flagruns were no longer important. Some maps like fc5, capture night or wdcd were completely broken. We also saw a strong effect on asymmetric maps. Suddenly most of them became incredibly unbalanced. So what did we get?

    • lazy players
    • an overall decrease in skill
    • broken maps
    • too fast, very unbalanced games
    • wins that are too easy and thus
      meaningless and not rewarding

    Did I miss something?
    I can only mention again that I like the new idea, because it will most likely fix most of these issues.


  • Masters

    I hate football for that stupid off-side rules. Why to hell you can not pass the ball behind last enema player? Wait, it is not last player, you have goal keeper, guy that use hands instead of foots.



  • i am in total disagree with this new rule, try to make a survey on the game to see what others think.



  • Hi there,

    I applaud trying different things out, tweaking the rules to benefit gameplay, etc. I also take the points made above, particularly where maps have flag bases are facing each other resulting in 10-0 (in extreme cases).

    However, I find the current change feels awkward, jarring, and detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.

    To avoid the problem of players passing the flag to a team member sat next to their flag: Why not disallow passes to players that are within a certain distance from their own flag base? Forward passes would still be allowed, but someone would have to make the final run to cap the flag.

    Just a thought.

    Kind regards,

    Stinkybob



  • @Stinkybob said in [Suggestion] Restrict Rugby Passes to Improve Gameplay:

    Why not disallow passes to players that are within a certain distance from their own flag base?

    Well, this scenario works in normal situations when e.g. on forge someone stays near the flag and waits to receive the enemy flag to score. Even a 5 meter pass can be helpful in such situations. That's why I suggested adding a timeout during which players can't pass flags. Even 3-5 secs help because no one can stay for this long on the enemy base of capture_night without being killed 3 times :D



  • @miu one player told me: now there is no sense in jumping over the roofs. the meaning of his words - some tactical actions disappear. personally my task has become simpler too. I do not need to watch the passing and receiving players at the same time. The difficulty arises only for the flagship. Yes. the game should develop, but you need to look for a balance of development. which method will strengthen teamwork and preserve the wealth of the techniques used?



  • I suggested this to create a middleground between scoring easy flags from the top position multiple times and no passing at all.

    The hard truth is that the concepts of Rugby and CTF are fundamentally different, and any attempt to combine them will break parts of the mechanics of either of them. You can either turn full Fusilli and switch the flags and allow passes to simulate actual Rugby, or you have plain instactf without any passes.

    What I suggested is basically normal ictf with the option to swap flags with your fellow teammates. I agree that it now is more difficult to move the flag across the map, because you actually have to run again yourself.
    I see that many people on the server disagree with this stance and would like back the original Rugby, because they have gotten used to it over the years, and there's nothing wrong with that. In the end it comes down to laying open your personal preference, which is what this thread is for.



  • Russians call the middleground version "it's neither fish and neither meat"

    1. Remove the rugby mode at all and rename the server. 2. complicate the rugby mode, but retain the old principle
      guys .. you have to make a choice)


  • "Remove the rugby mode at all and rename the server". Problem solved.



  • @Skillzful
    Well, if a good solution for the issue is not possible, this might be the best idea.
    Rugby was an experiment and every experiment can fail.
    The gamebreaking aspect is simply too strong.
    People who know me, will remember that I said that for 3 years.
    This discussion is long overdue and I am glad that we can have it now.



  • It's not as common as your post suggests. Maps like face capture or wdcd aren't dominated by passing forward. I haven't heard too many complaints about it at all. Sure, sometimes passing forward ends a match very quickly...but that is pretty rare. Passing (for most) means you have to stand still, and the player you are passing to also has to be standing still. Which makes you a target. Flagscore massacres are largely a myth.

    If anything, the game is more restrictive now without the ability to pass forward. I really hope the admins change it back. It sucks a lot of the fun out of the game to restrict it like this. I'll be playing less, for sure.

     Apple user since 1980

    0


  • This has led to many players complaining about Rugby

    only on few certain maps. and mostly newcomers and people who don't often play on rigatoni

    anyways the current implementation does a poor job. i still can pass “forward” on certain maps when the flag is not on the other end of the map, or the other way around. and i can't know if the pass will work or not if the player is on about the same distance from the base as i am.

    as a way to enhance and spice up this mode i suggest making the failed pass kill the teammate, or self



  • Флавчик...как ты думаешь, насколько вырастет уровень игры? это основная цель. повысить уровень игры...хм. хороший вопрос. я всегда улыбаюсь, когда игроки просят вернуть баланс. они не в курсе, что 10% оппонентов шкерится по закуткам, 10% изучают карту. не вопрос. баланс? легко. я не знаю, какая задача у Обста - сохранить посещаемость сервера и сохранить его статус самого привлекательного или действительно заставить игроков оторвать свои задницы и включить мозг. ты не слышишь, что я иногда говорю в процессе игры) но. текущее состояние - это извращение. решение должно быть жестким. революция или нет. в любом случае, я надеюсь, что зерна отделятся от плевел, и мы увидим красивые игры.



  • the 5 second thing seems more reasonable, because unbalanced skill on fc and wdcd seals the game in 20s.. or if possible try to limit who you can pass to, like anyone within # range. the former option sounds better



  • @julia красивые игры в миксах, на макаронах собирается сброд и ожидать какого-то повышени «уровня» от игры, в которой осталось полтора сервера, не придётся.

    да и не в этом дело. нужно пару недель поиграть, чтобы понять, как вообще играть в этот новый режим. текущая имплементация кривая и проблемная. но главное — это не просто модификация регби, а совсем новый вид игры, и сравнивать их вообще не стоит. и если сервер перейдёт на новый режим насовсем, то в старый уже поиграть не выйдет, в виду популярности сервера.

    я предлагал автоматически менять режимы игры, особенно мне хотелось бы хоть иногда играть в реверсивные флаги. но меня никогда никто не слушает



  • You focus too much on fast wins.
    Yes, wdcd, face capture, wdcd and so on are a problem.
    But rugby has also broken all of the asymmetric maps. Fc5, hallo, tortuga and so on. Without rugby, these maps are fairly balanced. With rugby, they are incredibly one sided due to superior positions for passes on one of the sides.
    Additionally the concept of flagruns has been completely removed. I remember the times in which people practiced complicated trickjumps and searched for the perfect routes to get rid of the followers. This whole skillset has been nullified and replaced by passes that are childs play in comparison. Rugby did not make the gameplay more diverse. The opposite is the case. High level techniques and skills were replaced with a cheat-like feature that created spoiled and lazy players. Last, I want to answer the statement that inxperienced players complain the most about rugby. Again, the opposite is the case. Experienced players complain, because they are heavily limited by the rugby rules. For example, because all their adcanced flagruns have become nearly useless. Many of them have already stopped playing, or did at least reduce their playtime. Bad players on the other hand profit from the rugby mode, because they can get lucky passes. If they had to use flagrun skills instead, they would not score nearly as many flags. However, the games would be more fair, because dedication, practice and creative solutions for game situations would again get the importance that they deserve. The main concept of games like sauer has always been the same. Easy to learn, hard to master. That is what makes them interesting. Rugby undermines that concept by providing an easy solution. From the perspective of an experienced player, this is bad in many ways. Additionally to the points that I mentioned already, we do also see a stagnation or even regression in the potential of players. Key elements of the game are not learned anymore, bad habits are created. Especially new players will never learn the game properly. From this perspective, it is understandable that they are afraid of any changes to the current system. But I am certain, that the games can only become better, if the rugby issue will be solved. Sorry, it has become a bit long. If you want to discuss more about these points, we can do that later.


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