[Suggestion] Restrict Rugby Passes to Improve Gameplay



  • @Skillzful
    Well, if a good solution for the issue is not possible, this might be the best idea.
    Rugby was an experiment and every experiment can fail.
    The gamebreaking aspect is simply too strong.
    People who know me, will remember that I said that for 3 years.
    This discussion is long overdue and I am glad that we can have it now.



  • It's not as common as your post suggests. Maps like face capture or wdcd aren't dominated by passing forward. I haven't heard too many complaints about it at all. Sure, sometimes passing forward ends a match very quickly...but that is pretty rare. Passing (for most) means you have to stand still, and the player you are passing to also has to be standing still. Which makes you a target. Flagscore massacres are largely a myth.

    If anything, the game is more restrictive now without the ability to pass forward. I really hope the admins change it back. It sucks a lot of the fun out of the game to restrict it like this. I'll be playing less, for sure.

     Apple user since 1980

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  • This has led to many players complaining about Rugby

    only on few certain maps. and mostly newcomers and people who don't often play on rigatoni

    anyways the current implementation does a poor job. i still can pass “forward” on certain maps when the flag is not on the other end of the map, or the other way around. and i can't know if the pass will work or not if the player is on about the same distance from the base as i am.

    as a way to enhance and spice up this mode i suggest making the failed pass kill the teammate, or self



  • Флавчик...как ты думаешь, насколько вырастет уровень игры? это основная цель. повысить уровень игры...хм. хороший вопрос. я всегда улыбаюсь, когда игроки просят вернуть баланс. они не в курсе, что 10% оппонентов шкерится по закуткам, 10% изучают карту. не вопрос. баланс? легко. я не знаю, какая задача у Обста - сохранить посещаемость сервера и сохранить его статус самого привлекательного или действительно заставить игроков оторвать свои задницы и включить мозг. ты не слышишь, что я иногда говорю в процессе игры) но. текущее состояние - это извращение. решение должно быть жестким. революция или нет. в любом случае, я надеюсь, что зерна отделятся от плевел, и мы увидим красивые игры.



  • the 5 second thing seems more reasonable, because unbalanced skill on fc and wdcd seals the game in 20s.. or if possible try to limit who you can pass to, like anyone within # range. the former option sounds better



  • @julia красивые игры в миксах, на макаронах собирается сброд и ожидать какого-то повышени «уровня» от игры, в которой осталось полтора сервера, не придётся.

    да и не в этом дело. нужно пару недель поиграть, чтобы понять, как вообще играть в этот новый режим. текущая имплементация кривая и проблемная. но главное — это не просто модификация регби, а совсем новый вид игры, и сравнивать их вообще не стоит. и если сервер перейдёт на новый режим насовсем, то в старый уже поиграть не выйдет, в виду популярности сервера.

    я предлагал автоматически менять режимы игры, особенно мне хотелось бы хоть иногда играть в реверсивные флаги. но меня никогда никто не слушает



  • You focus too much on fast wins.
    Yes, wdcd, face capture, wdcd and so on are a problem.
    But rugby has also broken all of the asymmetric maps. Fc5, hallo, tortuga and so on. Without rugby, these maps are fairly balanced. With rugby, they are incredibly one sided due to superior positions for passes on one of the sides.
    Additionally the concept of flagruns has been completely removed. I remember the times in which people practiced complicated trickjumps and searched for the perfect routes to get rid of the followers. This whole skillset has been nullified and replaced by passes that are childs play in comparison. Rugby did not make the gameplay more diverse. The opposite is the case. High level techniques and skills were replaced with a cheat-like feature that created spoiled and lazy players. Last, I want to answer the statement that inxperienced players complain the most about rugby. Again, the opposite is the case. Experienced players complain, because they are heavily limited by the rugby rules. For example, because all their adcanced flagruns have become nearly useless. Many of them have already stopped playing, or did at least reduce their playtime. Bad players on the other hand profit from the rugby mode, because they can get lucky passes. If they had to use flagrun skills instead, they would not score nearly as many flags. However, the games would be more fair, because dedication, practice and creative solutions for game situations would again get the importance that they deserve. The main concept of games like sauer has always been the same. Easy to learn, hard to master. That is what makes them interesting. Rugby undermines that concept by providing an easy solution. From the perspective of an experienced player, this is bad in many ways. Additionally to the points that I mentioned already, we do also see a stagnation or even regression in the potential of players. Key elements of the game are not learned anymore, bad habits are created. Especially new players will never learn the game properly. From this perspective, it is understandable that they are afraid of any changes to the current system. But I am certain, that the games can only become better, if the rugby issue will be solved. Sorry, it has become a bit long. If you want to discuss more about these points, we can do that later.



  • @Sweeper start playing. We do not have an example for a good game



  • @Sweeper well that's a good argument against the new mode. experienced players want mixes and noobs want easy winning with rugby. what made me play sauer was the fact that as a noob i could still score, even if by standing at the base trying to receive a flag. is pasta supposed to be a place to get pro or a place to get fun?

    and who doesn't enjoy scoring 10 flags in wdcd in 2 minutes? i know i do 😬
    or team up with someone and pass flags base-to-base on akroseum or authentic? roof to roof on berlin_wall? what about eternal_valley?

    oh and urban_c is hella boring in the new mode



  • What about a minimum number of passes (say 3) before it's possible to cap the flag?



  • @Sweeper Tbh, I always had the thought that Rugby was implemented as a way to encourage CTF play, because there are plenty of players (new ones in particular) I've seen that barely care at all about CTF (even if they're playing the gamemode), but care more about shooting down the next victim. Top that with the fact that some folk prefer populated servers... in which maps like wdcd to be too small to play ctf.

    Not to sound like a hypocrite. I know I focus on fragging, too, but I do strive for defending the flag.

    Sorry for that going off-topic. Now, on to the matter.

    @miu said in [Suggestion] Restrict Rugby Passes to Improve Gameplay:

    That's why I suggested adding a timeout during which players can't pass flags. Even 3-5 secs help because no one can stay for this long on the enemy base of capture_night without being killed 3 times :D

    That be true... if the enemy team isn't full of noobs. Still, the 3-5 second timeout sounds like a good idea.

    GUNS!

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  • @Stinkybob said in [Suggestion] Restrict Rugby Passes to Improve Gameplay:

    What about a minimum number of passes (say 3) before it's possible to cap the flag?

    That will only encourage Rugby passing even more, plus it'll get very irritating for a lot of people, especially if the flagrunner didn't even pass it in the first place and managed to get to their own base intact. It'll just be a detriment to gameplay.

    If it was, per say, a maximum number of passes before the flag can no longer be passed and must be manually be brought to the flagrunner's base to score... this might be effective, but it'll need a check to make sure a flagrunner didn't just drop the flag manually and pick it right back up to bypass such a rule.

    Edit: I take that back. I prefer @miu 's idea.

    GUNS!

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  • A time limit is a good idea, really the only good one I've read here. But to be honest, I have only seen those rapid-fire scoring sessions maybe twice in a month. They are relatively rare. But the fact that they occurred at all is what seems to be the issue. What about setting up a server with the old rugby rules intact? Where players go to play will decide what the players really want.

     Apple user since 1980

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  • Masters

    DON'T FIX SOMETHING THAT ISN'T BROKE........ If you never learned that .... I guess you play Video Games for a living.

    Noli nothis permittere te terere

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  • @Shag
    Others and I have clearly stated that rugby is very broken.
    We gave detailed explainations.
    Unlike the fans of the mode who did not manage it yet to bring some decent arguments. Cry cry rugby is cool do not remove it cry cry. You do not win a discussion like that.



  • @Sweeper lose or win a virtual discussion. this is a quasi-process for virtuals. The result will be understood later. I hope that someone is monitoring the attendance of the resource. the rejection of the rugby mode will not improve the quality of the game instantly. Perhaps, over time, game patriots will improve their skills.
     fantastic guys are involved in duels. but this is a public server for players of different levels. each had its own purpose and enjoyed some kind of action. you can not or do not want to listen and take into account the opinion of everyone. but to argue that the rugby mode is evil is a dogma. everything is not white or black in life. I believe that there are creative guys here. perhaps there is another option C, which is better than option A and B



  • I see one potentially rational moment now. a low popularity of the server will reduce the appearance of freaks of any type. Although there is no equivalent alternative for the implementation of their attacks



  • Not sure if such thing is possible to code, but most fantasy-based suggestion I can think of is perhaps make the flag passing not completely instantaneous and instead can be returned on the fly?

    As in, instead of the receiving person instantly getting the flag on passing, there would be a time-in-between that could allow a defender to jump in and "catch" the flag.

    GUNS!

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  • @Timakrov-Gunn I propose to limit the game to 1 flag. this is the only incentive to teach players to defend their base :)


  • Masters

    @Sweeper You have stated your opinion that you think Rugby is broken.... That does not mean it is so....... You have stated reasons... some of which I applaud.... the end result is that the Server is as empty as I have ever seen it, and the few that have frequented it have mostly said they do not like the recent changes...... These people do not have to justify WHY they do not like it... they simply state that FACT and don't play any more..... Not sure if that's what you all had in mind?????

    Noli nothis permittere te terere

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